to put it VERY lightly,
Is an advanced email marketer.
And it’s been a LONG time since we’ve been in contact,
Talking about getting him on the show,
With so much life and business going on since then,
…we got Sanocki on the show.
Drew ran a madly successful online retail eCommerce business before selling it.
Now he consults (mostly private equity and venture firms) how to do this stuff…
So if you’re into eCommerce, don’t miss out on this episode.
Because Sanocki is an eCommerce email marketing legend..
..and he gets into things like segmentation, targeting, marketing automation, RFM analysis (hundred bucks if you know what that means…jk). It breaks down your customer database to make sure you’re mailing the right people, the right stuff.
What’s this all equal?
Well if you’re in ecommerce,
Or if you use email marketing AT ALL,
It means MORE MONEY.
Just ask his consulting clients.
Sanocki’s email track record is phenomenal.
See what I mean inside,
And how you can make your email marketing that much more phenomenally profitable too ; )
Because we all know how email’s ROI is outrageous compared to say, SEO…
So be a pro, and polish or build a bulletproof email gameplan for your eCommerce retail company.
Do not delay any longer.
Podcast: Download (Duration: 38:11 — 30.7MB)
In this episode, you’ll discover:
- why and how repetition is the mother of skill
- how marketing.. online, email, whatever kind, transcends all marketplaces (learn it well and you can use it in any business you create no matter what kind)
- how email marketing separated Drew from his marketplace pack (competitors could copy him all they want without him caring now… because his list is now his true income generator)
- the number one benefit Drew ended up with after creating an email list (hint… it’s mind boggling)
- the absolute best way to grow your company into an asset (build yourself a profitable investment like Andrew did, unknowingly too)
- the principle and tech stuff with email marketing can be laid out on paper (in other words, all ESP’s are the same. Just use any of them)
- the golden rule with ecommerce email marketing is… relevance (learn how to nail it and crank out sales because of it)
- why everybody needs an engagement campaign (figure out how to turn visitors into customers)
- the three part breakdown of a successful eCommerce email campaign (don’t miss this one)
- Drew’s successful three part advanced eCommerce email marketing campaign formula… and all the goodies and examples in between
- how to turn complete strangers into freinds… and then long time customers
- the definition of an entrepreneur: building something with limited time and resources (just go out there and do it.. courses upon courses not needed)
- that endless blog tips and articles won’t help in the long run (absorb the principles and then execute!)
- how to read feedback to optimize whatever you’re working on to make it better
- that retention is the most advanced email marketing facet you will face (find out how Sanocki makes retention his b****)
- how the catalog industry, yes that same old school lumpy mail sector can teach email marketers a trick or two
- how recency, frequency, and monetary value are 3 metrics that allow you to create fantastic triggered email programs (retain more and more and more customers)
- how you MUST learn how to retain and extend your customer’s lifetime values
- why CLV should be greater than CAC (find out more in the episode about this epic formula for business)
- the snapshot to motion video technique to killer custom email campaigns (and this one’s gold for any type of online business owner with a list of buyers, readers, clients, whatever).
- why active list members are so much more important… than the total number in your list
- the best time to set up a trip wire marketing campaign (win back the waning customers with this trick)
- what a look-alike audience is (you’ll think this is pretty damn cool, and useful)
- Drew Sanocki’s Blog (eCommerce and online marketing related)
- @DrewSanocki – Twitter
- Powerhouse Campaigns (Drew’s 5 week course for EVERYTHING email marketing… for retailers)
- Seth Godin’s Permission Marketing
- Rob Walling
- Mineral.io (ad agency that focuses on paid acquisition marketing)
- Jim Novo (for some RFM education)
Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO
John McIntyre: Hello, it’s John McIntyre here the Auto responder again. It’s time for episode 94 of the McMethod email marketing podcast. We’re getting close to it… episode 100. Next, you’ve got a special surprise coming for you at episode 100 so stay tune for that. Now, this is the podcast where you discover… I used to be saying a one simple thing how to make money every time you send them email. But, I think the new tune I’m going with is that, this is really just about marketing. Yes, it’s focused on email and yes it’s called email-marketing podcast but, this is all just marketing fundamentals.
A lot of guys out there… a lot of famous, successful coach that are famous are saying is, “Reparation is the mother of skill on earth.” Few people will say that and, that’s why it’s good when you listen a podcast like this to do it over and over again. Because you’ve really ground in, you grind in those fundamentals about marketing and sales, and how to get more customers.
So, it might be like, “I’ve herd this before.” You know, “I already know how to write copyright emails or send emails to my list.” But, sometimes this kind of things and this is how I look at out with conferences, and conversations and things like that. So, you can get just one idea… one simple idea which might be 10 seconds worth of material in a podcast, or conference, or whatever it is. One single thing, that could make a huge difference in your business and in your life. One single thing that you implement, Okay, and that’s why learning is such amazing thing. So, you’ve had that empty, begins is mine… I think this among school anyway. And not philosophizing falsifying, today we’re talking to Drew Sanocki about some advanced email-marketing strategies for ecommerce retail.
So, Drew…. it must been like a year ago… a year and half ago and I want to do a podcast because it built say taking a ecommerce retailer and done some pretty dam advanced email marketing stuff with them in blink. Sort of automating emails, segmenting list for… just automating the whole thing. So, it happened automatically [laughter] and dramatically increased the lifetime value of the customs that came through that store.
So, I brought him on to the [inaudible 0:01:52.9] caught up some mother stuff, and I go caught up with stuff. But, now he come back and he is ready to share what he did to grow that store? And that’s what we’re goanna talk about today. So, you have any ecommerce store, this one is for you. To get the [inaudible 0:02:03.5]…for this episode of the email marketing podcast, go to themcmethod.com /94. Now, this week’s McMaster’s inside of the week is really, really simple. But, a lot of you, even me… forget about this… someone is high.
This is a fundamental idea that… here it is. Always giveaway value in your emails, now this supplies in your marketing as well. But, the thing is you want to leave them some better than you’ve found them. When some reads your email, when someone reads your sales page, when someone listens to your radio ad, when someone gets on a sales call with you, even reads a blog post. Before you start to teach them, before you start to teach them, before you start to say, “Hey, look here are this great product I think you should buy.” You want them to subconsciously feel like they got some value from that email, okay. Here’s an example, one of those emails I send that is called the seven-letter-words underlies all effective marketing. Okay, I open… you know like other’s is a one-word that’s underlies everything in marketing. If you can mail this one single thing to seven-letter-word, everything goanna be easier. You know that word is? Empathy.
Now, what’s empathy? Empathy means you want to understand them, you’ve really got to dive deep into your prospects hopes, dreams, fears, problems, desires and when you know that you can translate that into an amazing copy which is really goanna inspire and drive the marketing that you do. But, without that, its all goanna be fail. Okay. Now, if you want to learn how to use empathy properly you need to get you know… “I’ve got a couple different surveys you could use including 10 specific question that you need to ask every prospect before you start trying to sell to them. And, that those questions and that those surveys that they are available inside my product right here. Click here to sign up.”
Okay, so that’s an example of an email… I just made that up then so it’s not [laughter] on exactly what it says but the idea is to first to give them a value, which is that you need to have empathy. Next, I’ll explain what empathy is, some sort of just flashing in and out of it you know, just making sure that value is this. So, even if someone reads the email and doesn’t buy a single thin, well even unsubscribe some of that email at the very at least they know… you said you start to believe. But, they know that the empathy is important. They’ve got that piece of value in it they don’t need to pay me, they don’t need to do anything, they don’t need to click anything to get the value and then there’s a pitch. So, you want to do this in your sales letters as well or any sort of marking that you put out there. Offer some value before you pitch; give away a tip, give away some advice and then pitch, use that transgression into the pitch. Give them the what? The emp… What you need to do? You need to have empathy. How do you do it? Buy this product. Okay. So, always, always give people better than you’ve found them in everything you do. This applies to your sales; get on your sales call if you do sale call. And, just blow your perspective away with all the value, with all the advice you’ve given in that what they can do in this specific situation. And, then obviously if there are good prospective, you’ve qualified them, they cannot hide you anyway. This is not way thing you know you want to do this hard worth of themselves, okay? So, that’s it for now.
The last thing is the reviews… so I keep going on it; I think there’s a little bit lately. But, like I said last week I love reviews and I really eat them for breakfast. They just make me so happy, put a massive smile on my face. So, what you know, when I wake up in the morning, and there’s a new podcast of you know, I jump off up and down on my bed like it’s trampling into a few back flips, I cannot think. Seriously, anyway that’s enough for that fun. Let’s get into this Mr. Drew Sanocki, it’s John McIntyre here, the Auto responder guy, I am here with Drew Sanocki. Now, Drew came to me by email. I think it must have been two years ago. He has been listening to the podcast and turns out that he is an email guy himself. He actually built a big ecommerce retailer online and they happen to use a ton of email marketing in then in really advanced way with they did a lot of segmentation and targeting and some RFM analysis. So, embrace a way of breaking down the database to figure out whom to mail, what to mail and more that sort of stuffs.
We chatted way back two years ago, I’m doing a pod cast together on this and we went back and fort and I think I followed up a few times, said I would keep following and then eventually I stopped following up and nothing really happened. Then, emailed me out of the blue a couple of weeks ago. May be a week or two ago and said, “Hey, I’m back. Got this new website, and I’m doing this e commerce stuff. You want to get on the phone and have a chat?” So, here we are doing a podcast on some of the advanced email marketing strategies used with that easy commerce retailer and then the consulting client he is working with today. So, today that’s what we’re talking about. Drew, how you’re going man?
Drew Sanocki: Doing well, I think when I reached at to you I said that I got this new kid, now I got this new course because the kid is the reason why I kind of fell of the map for two years. There’s anybody who’s had a kid would know.
John McIntyre: [laughter]
Drew Sanocki: Brings you to your two nieces for like two years but now I’m back in the world again.
John McIntyre: But it feels good right?
Drew Sanocki: Yeah, It feels great. You mean having the kid or being back in the world again?
Drew Sanocki: Both, both of things feel good.
John McIntyre: Both of things feel good. Yeah, [laughter] All right, we’ll talk about some about needy, greedy in a minute. Before we do that can you give the listener a bit of a quick background on who is Drew, and what has he done and what does he do?
Drew Sanocki: Sure, thanks. My name is Drew Sanocki, and I live in New York City. About… in 2003 I started a online retailer called designpublic.com. I grew that for about 10 years, I sold it in 2012. And, after that I started consulting to mostly private equity and venture firms on e commerce and online marketing. That’s where I am today. I blog at drewsanocki.com, mostly talk about marketing and ecommerce.
John McIntyre: Okay, very quick and then you’ve just said you’ve got cost in doing it well, right?
Drew Sanocki: I do, I found that… well, John as you and I know we talked about this just a little bit before we got on the air. But, email marketing drove my online retailer, and I found that I was using that the same techniques that implemented at my retailer at every consulting and coaching client I worked with. So, in an effort to kind of opened the doors and release those techniques to a more people I started an online coarse called Power House Campaign and it’s a five workshop that will bring you through everything you need to know about email marketing. Four retailers should add that it is targeted a little bit for retailers but I guess it applies that to anybody.
John McIntyre: Right. Yeah, it sort of like it’s I mean email, even marketing when you get sort of the fundamental understanding you can apply it when you get it, you can really apply it anywhere to any type of business online.
Drew Sanocki: Yeah, it’s like the power of having a big list and then saying, “You know, I need more revenue, or I want to drill down and, what I like the most about email is that when we started our retailer?” We wore drop ship retailer, we sold pretty much the same thing that two or three retailers sold. And, you know you’d add something to your home page and your competitors would copy it or you’d find a new product to carry and like within months your competitors had it. And, it was killing me like… that was killing me because you’d go to bed you’d just like this pitting your stomach like, “ Are the competitors on sale today? Like, how do I need to react to that and, that kind of liberated me from that cycle of that… that competitive cycle was email marketing because you could look at your… you can built that permission asset really like you built that asset of email addresses. And then you can segment and target it in different ways and it’s sort of one to one relationship between you and that customer, you and that subscriber that is really hard for any competitor to duplicate. And, for us it really led to growth. I know for other retailers their main frustration was something like Google SCL like relying entirely on one marketing channel.
John McIntyre: Yeah.
Drew Sanocki: And, an email is again like another solution there where it just really can diversify your accusation and in conversion channels.
John McIntyre: Right. Well, I’d like to know before we get into the some of the needy, greedy is… and I’m sort of least as curious too where… when I found this [inaudible 0:09:41.7] I did a podcast this morning actually with a guy, it was very tactical – really great information but, I was thinking there as you know imagine there someone’s brought might be listing in this, may be there are eyes are glazing over it just because it’s a lot of info and it’s a bit like why does it matter? So, before you get into the needy, greedy why did like… I mean how… like let’s bring it down to what clearly benefits did it have to your business, to your lifestyle, to weather you fall asleep at night. If you can share… I don’t know if you’d share like how much money that it’s you know, what sort of numbers it did for you? What’s… why should someone be excited about this?
Drew Sanocki: Sure, the biggest benefit which I did not expect when you go to sell your retailer they want to know that how many names were there on your list? And like, how many are active?
John McIntyre: Yeah.
Drew Sanocki: I didn’t meant to… I didn’t build it with that intent. But, now that I’m working more with private equity and venture firms like that’s how retailers get bought. You know, they get bought for the list and I’m sure the same thing is true for any content marketers, or for information marketers. It’s all about the list size you know that’s… if you want to sell your company; you got to grow that asset. So, I think that’s probably the biggest benefit but, year to year, or month to month, week to week email was driving probably 15% of our new customers sales. The conversion rates from our email list wore three times higher than conversion rates from paid, actuation, or SCL, or from social. So, totally converted I think we wore averaging about a dolor per subscriber per email sent, which were really high.
John McIntyre: Yeah.
Drew Sanocki: And, for certain emails… not for every campaign, but certain campaigns would often bring us up to like 9$ per emails sent, which is just incredible. So, it’s like it’s cash money and the nice thing about email is you can automate all this stuff like, you know you are not a hold in to goggle, you’re not obligated to cope with crazy new blog posts that go viral or like some of the viral news sites to now like email marketing just works with a free email service provider like MailChimp or, one like Awebber you can automate 80-90% of your email program and just it runs day and night. And, that’s what I’ve loved about the most.
John McIntyre: Yeah. And, what about the tech side of it… I mean, it sounds like you might be a bit of a techy guy, what if someone’s not a techy pearl like a technical person? Is this something we’re goanna be able to either sales or arrange with that teams to do?
Drew Sanocki: Absolutely not, I’m joking.
John McIntyre: [laughter]
Drew Sanocki: Of course,yeah. [laughter] absolutely not which is why you need take my class powerhousecampaings.com.
John McIntyre: [laughter]
Drew Sanocki: No, it’s… I teach it in the class but it’s something you could do it yourself with the spreadsheet, that’s the most common question I get is like, “Okay, what technology do I need here, what’s [inaudible 0:12:38.5] do I need to help me out?” And yeah, those things could make it easier but I think principles behind it are sort of universal and easily understood and easily implement with MailChimp and AWeber they are probably the two biggest stuff people use but both those feature automation and I think they’re pretty easy to setup.
John McIntyre: Yeah, let’s talk about that the you just mentioned about the principles that you can get… the principle I mean, like how big on this two, people say, “What’s the best email auto responder provider?” If they can just find the right software where everything would just be fine.
Drew Sanocki: Yeah everything works.
John McIntyre: But it’s just not how it works, right? I mean it’s not… it’s about… I think we all do it right? We are all like nervous, we’re all afraid of failure, we’re all insecure about you know… it to some extent in some way, we would fear pleasure part and all about lives. And, so we create this, “I’ll find, I’ll do it.” This feels like one of those things. It’s like, “Focus on the software.” When it’s not the issue. Software doesn’t really matters, there’s plenty of great software solution out there. What you really need to understand is I guess the marketing in this case marketing fundamentals; the principles underlying it and then you can use what ever tool you like.
Drew Sanocki: Right. I think the biggest and the best principle is relevance you know just sending the right message to the right person through right time.
John McIntyre: Okay. I mean that’s pretty simple, are we just end the podcast right here. There we go bro.
Drew Sanocki: [laughter] So, to expand on that I think there is probably… you know, people hear segmentation and targeting which really is what relevance is right? Their eyes either glaze over they think and that means… you know I got at least in retail, that means I got a send, each customer in the exact product that they want on the day they wanted, that’s related to their previous purchase and that probably requires big data to figure out what those things are and… you know I think that the big companies like Amazon there like they do that but… like you don’t really need to start there, like you get 70 to 80 % of probably the predictive power that the Amazon has, just by some basic level of increased relevance.
John McIntyre: Right.
Drew Sanocki: For you know… and I can give you some examples. I think everybody needs an engagement campaign. This is the campaign the goal of which is to turn your new site visitors into customers, right? So, in e commerce 98% of people who go to your site on any one-day bounce so average e commerce conversion rate is 2%, like what if you could get that 2% to 4%? And, the way you do it is by collecting someone’s email address and then selling to them over time. You know like building up trust, introducing some of your products and ultimately having your called action. So, they buy something that’s an engagement campaign and I think it’s just what we’ve done is taken all the possible customer segments out there and we’ve focused in on one, and it’s the new site visitors and then developed an email campaign just for them.
John McIntyre: Why didn’t you tell me about that? Like let’s say like I’m on the site you mentioned earlier and there is a pop up for I get the news let us save 5%. How do you suggest some of these goanna have a store, what sort of campaign are you goanna say… how many like, how are they goanna… you know what’s the pop-up of a goanna be some honor to listen the first place, and how many emails, what are the emails goanna be about to engage the people on that list?
Drew Sanocki: Yeah, I like to break in ecommerce engagement campaign down into three parts. It’s the lead magnet, which you’ve mentioned there’s a little bit of value that you give up in exchange for the email address. Then there is the welcome sequence, which is anywhere from two to five days worth of emails that go out over time to sort of educate and inform, built up trust. And then, there’s a called the action at the end. And, as far as what I see working for lead magnets… the quickest and easiest in the e commerce is a discount so, 10% off your first purchase, or free shipping on your first purchase. But, you don’t have to start there; other things work really well too. I think things like a free guide – downloadable guide or, a look per curriculum where you can see the products and action, or even some increased service offerings like, “Call and get free consultation.” These are all things that I see ecommerce retailers that don’t want to go straight to discounting, using really well.
John McIntyre: Yeah. I mean here’s an element where like you know, I’ve been [inaudible 0:16:50.4] If I’m not ready to purchase, I’m not even sorry for if I want to buy from that site. I’m not goanna be interested in 5% off, I’m not in… like this discount not goanna matter to me until like, “I’m goanna buy something.” But until that point happens, I’m goanna be more interested in some sort of [inaudible 0:17:04.5] or a report, some sort of cool information… that kind of like a hook, something catchy, it’s goanna make you think, “Wow, wow we’re goanna know what that is.”
Drew Sanocki: Yeah, you know I think most retailers underestimate subsidy cost and, subsidy cost is a cost that the money you’re giving away to create incentive where the customer didn’t need that incentive. A certain percentage of that customer would buy anyway and yet you’re sending them a 10% off coupon, you’re loosing 10% margin there. So, what can you do on the creative side to get away from that 10% discount? How do you get that person excited to buy? What kind of information or content do you give that person or increase service