Episode #68 – Justin Brooke on The Unlimited Scaling Potential of Your Business Through Targeted Copy

by John McIntyre

Justin Brooke’s middle name is paid traffic.

So learn it RIGHT from the start,

Or change your game-plan now,

Because Mr. Brooke has the magic key to your success…

He’s rubbed elbows with POWERFUL influencers –

…Russell Brunson and Rich Shefren among others.

And he’s got this paid traffic stuff dialed down.

Justin ramped up his first biz from $2 per day to a six figure company 

… in ONE year.

How does he do it?

Brunson and Shefren’s MASSIVE libraries played their part.

But his paid traffic success is heavily owed to ONE book:

Breakthrough Advertising.

And ONE idea especially…

The 5 Levels of Awareness.

Justin is an awareness level extraordinaire.

And if you want to know and grow YOUR paid traffic,

You gotta be an awareness level genius as well.

It’s NOT hard.

But you MUST learn it to be successful.

Until then,

You’re leaving WAY TOO MUCH money on the table.

Listen-in and learn how you too can implement this on your biz.

Learn exactly what to write and when.

Soon you’ll be laughing at how silly you were for writing that copy to that list.

And once you learn that,

You’ll also be laughing yourself to the bank

Like every day.


In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • the main reason why your paid traffic isn’t cutting it (the magic key to your business success)
  • how to turn an attention-grabbing story into a powerful pitch
  • the unknown fact that copy is not just copy (it takes more strategy than you think)
  • how to transform yourself into a Converting Incredible Hulk (traffic is cool, but converting is money)
  • the profit-murdering mistake caused by your awesome copy (yes, even stellar copy needs this treatment)
  • the process to finding your potential customer’s correct level of awareness (do not take this bullet point lightly)
  • how to schedule your broadcasts the right way (broadcasts are stupid powerful if used correctly)
  • the essential first step you must take before you set that pen to paper (don’t waste your time and money ever again)
  • the traffic microwave technique to explode your list out of cold traffic (implement these actionable steps today)

Email Marketing Podcast Episode 1


Intro and outro backing music: Forever More by CREO

Raw transcript:

Download PDF transcript here.

John McIntyre:Yeah, it’s John McIntyre here. The Autoresponder Guy, and it’s time for Episode 68 of the McMethod Email Marketing Podcast. Where you’ll discover one simple thing. How to make more money with every single email that you send. Today we’re talking to Justin Brooke from IMScalable.com.

Now Justin, … The reason I got him on was to … I mentioned before that I’m in the process of diving in a [page writer 00:00:20] myself right now. Part of that journey has been, and I wanted to get some of these marketers out there that are big on paid traffic, and get them on the show obviously to ask them questions that will help me get better results, but also to help you because a lot of people come to me. They want to know about email marketing but they also want to know how do they get traffic? How do they get people to their site? What about paid traffic? How do they make paid traffic work?

If you can make paid traffic work you can scale the crap out of it and make a thousand dollars a day right? It’s very exciting. I thought I’d get Justin on the show. Justin’s from IMScalable. I’ve actually hired Justin for a bit of coaching to help me with my own file. I’ve got him on here and we’re going to talk about paid traffic, right? He interned … Just to give you some background. He interned with Russell Brunson way back in the day, and he was hired by Rich Schefren at one point to do his paid traffic stuff. 

These guys work with some of the biggest names in the business on paid traffic, and he knows what he’s talking about. Which is why I’ve hired him to coach me. Now anyway, today we have to talk about the difference in copy for cold traffic and warm traffic in [JB and Affiliates 00:01:09]. There’s … Someone [inaudible 00:01:11] copy is copy is copy. In a way it is, but at the same time it’s not because when good copy is good copy, but there still needs to be context there. That when you’re writing copy for cold traffic, that people have never heard from you before, you need to take a different approach then with warm traffic. We’re going to dive into what approach you need to take.

We’re going to talk about the sales front. What’s the sales front you need to have and how to make it work. The five stages of awareness. That’s another key thing that totally blew my mind, and one of the stages of awareness is solution aware stage. This is someone whose … They’re overweight, they want to lose weight, and they know their solution’s out there; diets and pills, and all that sort of stuff. They’re in the solution aware stage. They’ve got a problem, they’re aware that there’s a solution. 

Now there’s specific things that work better in different stages. One of the things we’ll talk about today is the best thing for people in the solution aware stage. What you need to do to get them to buy stuff. To get the show notes for this episode of the email marketing podcast, go to the McMethod.com/68. 

Now this week’s McMasters Insight of the Week is up-sells. On a recent McMasters round table … It’s basically a webinar for the private community that I have McMasters. We talked about up-sells. I want to go through the sales funnel that I’ve got running around now. A key part of that sales funnel was up-sells. This came from a friend of mine who suggested that before I go live on this paid traffic, I setup three up-sells. That I go from … 

The first products right, is a seven dollar product on the front end. That’s the first product that someone buys. Then at first that was all I was going to do, but now what I’ve got setup is someone can buy … Once they buy seven they get an offer for the forty-seven dollar product. If they buy that they get an offer for a ninety-seven dollar product. If they buy that they get an offer for a two hundred and ninety seven dollar product, right? 

What that means is that somebody goes to that phone, that’s going to dramatically increase the amount of money that they can spend with me, which then pushes me closer to that say breaking even on the front end, and then I can use autoresponders to make money … Different emails sent out to make it up on the back end. With the up-sells, and the reason I think it’s so important right here, is that if you need [inaudible 00:02:56] paid traffic,  up-sells … Well placed, a good offer that people want could be the thing that makes or breaks your paid traffic campaign.

Maybe you set up a series of up-sell flow is what it’s called, and it doesn’t work. Maybe you just need to change those up-sells around. Maybe you need to change the prices a little bit. Maybe you need to change a forty-seven to a ninety-seven, and all of a sudden you’ll be wildly profitable, okay? That’s up-sells. That’s why … Even if you’re not doing paid traffic, just on your normal product. If you sell a product for ninety-seven dollars or a hundred and ninety-seven or a thousand dollars, whatever. You should have an up-sell on that. If someone buys it, what else can you offer them? 

To see, all right, would you like fries with that? It sounds so simple and so silly, and it took me so long to do it, but I’m so glad I did because now I’m making … When I look at the stats of this paid traffic funnel I just did yesterday; almost all the money in that funnel from that campaign so far has been from the up-sells. If I didn’t have that the whole thing would look like a complete joke with those [inaudible 00:03:46] sales. That’s this week’s McMasters Insight of the Week.

Now if you don’t know, McMasters is the private training community that I’ve got. It’s where you would go if you want to learn how to write an email order responder for yourself, for your business, for your clients; anything like that. Pages as well. Thinking about how to tell stories that sell. All this sort of stuff that I talk about on the podcasts. You can learn more about it inside McMasters. It’s also the best way to get direct access to me and to help on your training and coaching. We have a round table each month, a webinar where I jump on and I give a lesson, and then answer and questions. There’s also the forum where you can get in there and ask me questions, talk to the other people in there, and really get some concrete, specific, actionable feedback there on campaigns. 

If you want to learn more about McMasters go to the McMethod.com/McMasters. That’s the sales page right there. Now, if you enjoy the Email Marketing Podcast, you get a lot of value out of it. I would love it if you could head over to the iTunes store, search the McMethod Email Marketing Podcast, leave me a review. Make it five stars if you really do enjoy it or whatever other stars you think it’s worth; give me some feedback, tell me what you think. I will read out your review on the show. We [happy 00:04:44] days. You send me an email, I’ll send you a virtual high five and I’ll buy your dinner if you come to Thailand, how’s that? 

Before we get into [inaudible 00:04:51] one listener question. At one point did you know it was the right time to quit your job and do this full-time? That’s an interesting question because the answer, at least for me, was that I got a job, I did. I got a job in the Philippines. I quit my job and went to the Philippines. It wasn’t … It was halfway in the … It was in the Philippines that I started learning how to write … I taught myself to write copy. Then that led into client work, and then once I had clients I was told that the job was over. I didn’t even choose to quit the job. It’s just once I was making enough money to support myself and just get by from the copy-writing, the job was just really just an internship just wrapped up. 

I got kicked into the deep end perhaps a little bit. Then I moved to Thailand. It kind of happened like that. For someone else at what point do you know is the right time to quit your job? If you’re young or you’re able to travel or able to relocate. Which that’s going to be easier if you’re young. If you’ve got a family it might be a bit more difficult. Move to Thailand or the Philippines or somewhere like that. You’d be able to drop your monthly burn rate, your expenses, to far less than what you’re going to be paying … Generally speaking, then what you pay in a Western city. If you’ve got a savings in that, that will give you more runway to build your business. 

If you don’t want to do that because that can be sort of risky, but it will allow you to work full-time on your business. If you don’t want to do that then you basically work nights and work until your business is making enough money to cover all your expenses and maybe then some or replace your salary. Simple as that. Anyway, that’s it for now. Let’s get into this interview with Mr. Justin Brooke, and talk about paid traffic. 

It’s John McIntyre here, The Autoresponder Guy. I’m here with Justin Brooke. Justin is a paid traffic specialist. He’s the founder of IMScalable that generated billions of ad impressions, millions of paid … They’ve driven millions of dollars in sales, and they have quite an impressive client list. Now their specialty is Facebook with re-targeting, but they’ve got accounts in fourteen other networks. 

Now I actually hired Justin about a month ago to do some coaching. To help me build the … Help me with the strategy and how to get the traffic to the new … I’m building basically a paid traffic sales funnel for the McIntyre Method. I thought I’d get Justin, hire Justin, and get his help. What I also thought was it’d be cool to get him on the podcast to talk about some of his expertise in traffic and funnels and all that, and how that relates to email copy. He’s got something that he suggested before we hit record, that we could talk about. Which we’ll get into in just a minute.

Before that, Justin, how are you going man? 

Justin Brooke:I’m good man, thank you so much for having me on the call. You’ve got a killer lineup of people that you’ve been interviewing. It’s an honor to be one of  the same … Be on the same podcast. Thank you.

John McIntyre:Thanks for coming on man, I  appreciate it. Before we get into the nitty-gritty today can you give the listener a bit of a background on … I’ve done a little bit from the bio on the website, but can you give the listener a bit more of a background on who you are and what do you do?

Justin Brooke:Yeah. The really short story is I got started in 2005. Didn’t make any … I mean I made a little money between 2005 and 2007, but nothing … I mean I think at my height I was paying the car bill with my online projects, but that was validation. Then I got an internship with Russell Brunson who lives out in Idaho. Runs Dotcomsecrets and a couple of other websites, and he was a multimillion dollar Internet publisher. Getting an internship with him; my job there was to … He had this quarter of a million dollar library of marketing courses, and recorded seminars, and DVDs, and books. My job was to go through that stuff, write affiliate review articles so that he could promote the site and make affiliate commissions on the courses that he had bought.

I got the education of a lifetime from that. I literally, a quarter of a million dollar education learning from J Abraham, and Joe Polish, and Chet Holmes, and Stephen Pierce. I mean, just all the absolute top guys. It was an unpaid internship so I was still broke when I went home, but I took the … I borrowed half of my electric bill. I only paid half of the eclectic bill when I got back, and I took the other sixty bucks, put it on an AdWords account; pathetic two dollar a day budget, but used what I learned and rolled that money into a hundred a fifty, and then three hundred, nine hundred, yada, yada.

Eleven months in a row doubled my money. I had a six figure business by the time it was all done. It was paid traffic that I saw change my life from eating Ramen noodle soups to going out to Red Lobster. It was the difference for me. I’ve just been a paid traffic geek ever since. I mean all traffic. Inbound, SEO, native ads, Facebook ads, traditional media buys, anything.

John McIntyre:Okay, cool man. I like that. I didn’t actually know. I read it right here in the grapevine somewhere that you interned with someone or there was some kind of background story there. I didn’t know it was Russell Brunson. That’s pretty cool man.

Justin Brooke:Yeah, yeah I did that. That started my info business career. I had a couple of different info product businesses. Different products make money online. Software … I had a movie review website for a very short time. It didn’t make any money, but was fun. Then around 2010 or 2011 I got hired by Rich Schefren just because my business wasn’t doing too hot. 

I mean I had plenty of traffic but there’s a lot of other things that go into a business. He hired me and that’s when I was really able to prefect my craft because I didn’t have to worry about bills. I didn’t have to worry about hiring; just any of the business stuff. He had a really big budget, he had a really good funnel. He had all the resources and I was just really able to take the knowledge that I had, apply it in so many different ways on so many different networks that, that was where I really got the experience to go along with all the knowledge, and that’s where I feel like I was really able to master this stuff.

John McIntyre:Oh okay. You mean Rich Schefren hired you to do some traffic campaigns for him?

Justin Brooke:Yeah I was his media buyer for a year … Almost two years. 

John McIntyre:How was that? That would have been pretty killer; hanging out with Rich.

Justin Brooke:It was great. You don’t get a whole lot of opportunities to hang out with Rich but when you do it’s always memorable. He has amazing reading processes and workout processes. He’s got the greatest vodka in the world, literally in his office, and the greatest cigars. One minute … Then he has books. Most business people are all reading the same books. You probably read Think and Grow Rich, and you probably read this book and that book. You go into his office and he’s got books you’ve never heard of before. It’s just really cool. It’s a very unique experience working for a guy like Rich. He’s not like other human beings. 

John McIntyre:Yeah, I remember watching. There was a video on You Tube of him with his reading process. How he takes a book then gives it to his assistant, then she scans it into his iPad or something like that, then he gets on the treadmill and reads through it, but he’s using a speed reading app and he’s getting through …  

Justin Brooke:Forty thousand words per minute on a treadmill with oxygen hooked up. I have seen it with my own eyes. It’s crazy.

John McIntyre:Oh I always … Well I saw that and I was like, “Is that … Does that even work?” If you ask him after he’s read that book, does he actually know what the book’s about?

Justin Brooke:He does, he does man. He has an amazing amount of information in his head.

John McIntyre:That’s incredible, that’s incredible. All right. I’ve been trying to get him on the podcast, but so far no luck. Anyway, you mentioned before you hit record here, you mentioned talking about copy for cold traffic and warm traffic, and that there’s a difference there. I think I realized that probably in the last three to six months. Before that I would have just thought copy was copy. That if you’re writing copy for when it’s a Facebook ads, Google ads or affiliates or even just for traffic that’s coming through my website; through articles or podcasts or whatever it happens to be, that copies is copy, is copy. 

There’s probably some people listening to this right now who either think the same thing or used to think the same thing or we could talk about this and figure out the problems with that. Let’s get into it man. Give me the broad overview of what the issue is here.

Justin Brooke:Yeah, I used to think exactly the same thing. I mean you hear about copywriting and you think that’s it. There’s one type of copywriting. You learn that there’s a headline and a hook and an offer. The [zignarick 00:13:03] effect; all these different things. It wasn’t until later in my career. Actually probably halfway through working with Rich, where I had access to really, really high level copywriters. To guys who were working with Agora and [Boardroom 00:03:19]. When I had access to these guys they showed me books that I had never read before. They turned me onto Eugene Schwartz’s Five Levels of Awareness. 

Eugene Schwartz wrote a book. It’s pretty much the greatest book on advertising ever written. It’s called Breakthrough Advertising. It’s finally in read print now. It used to be you had to find a used copy for eight, nine hundred dollars. It’s being re-printed now for a hundred dollars. I highly suggest everybody get it if you’re into copywriting. If you’re into marketing in general. He has this thing in there called the Five Levels of Awareness. This really changed the game for all advertisers for decades. I mean until today. You can use this on social media. You can use this in your email list. You can use this on banner ads.

The five different levels are you have … This totally relates to paid traffic and warm traffic because when you’re speaking to your email list that is somebody who already has a relationship with you. They’ve already given you some contact details. They already know what you are about. You know that they want this stuff. There’s a much different context to somebody who’s on your list. There’s a lot different context between somebody who’s been on your list for one week, and somebody who’s been on your list for a year. Totally different context. Then you have a perfect stranger. You walk into the mall and you walk up to someone, that is a perfect stranger. 

What he was talking about is, is the way … How do you structure your copy differently for the perfect stranger, differently for the person who’s been on your list for one week, and differently for the person who’s been on your list for one year? To give you a little bit of an idea, you have Apple who when they announce the iPad 3 or the iPad 2, whatever they’re on, they’re able to create an advertisement that says iPad 2 on sale now. That’s all the copy that they need because the market is already aware. They’re lining up for days in advance trying to get one of the first of these things available. This person is in the most aware.

The levels of awareness are most aware, product aware, solution aware, problem aware, and then unaware. Apple right now is in a most aware state. The market knows who Apple is. Everybody knows who Apple is, what they sell, what they do, the quality level; all that stuff. They don’t need copy anymore really. They just need to  … They’re really selling it on the price and the features of it. What are the new retina screens or whatever? 

Now you go back to … If you think about the ads that they used to run years ago, people didn’t know who they were. They were unaware of who they were. They had to use stories and they had to use secrets. That’s much like Agora. Agora runs a financial newsletter business where they sell newsletters as front end. You get on a newsletter for like fifty bucks for a year. The newsletter has stock tips or gold investing tips or real estate tips, whatever. Then they back end that with coaching, various levels of coaching. In order to get the most amount of people to scale to the hundreds or millions that they’re making each year from these newsletters, they are reaching out to the unaware people because that is the mass population. You can reach … The masses are the unaware. 

In order to attract the unaware you have to use a story. Their video sales are always about something that Obama’s doing or something that’s in the news. It’s always something that’s timely and relevant. Then they connect that newsy controversial story to what they’re doing. For example, “Do you think … I’m not taking any sides of the political party here, but they normally market to the people who don’t like President Obama. 

They would say something like, “Do you think President Obama is ruining the world?” They would tell this story about all the things that he’s doing wrong and they’d say, “And that’s why you need to invest in gold, and that’s why you need to learn how to invest in gold.” They turn that story which gets the attention, into the very reason why they need to learn this information. Then they start pitching their product. 

Totally two complete different sides of the copy. When somebody is … A lot of times to wrap this whole diatribe up. Most people, they build a sales letter. They create an autoresponder sequence; they create a via cell or a webinar or a sales letter. Then they use that the same way they would for their affiliates, their house list. Then they go and they’re like, “Well man, this stuff is working so well, I want to try Facebook ads.” Then Facebook ads bombs and because it was working well for their lists and their affiliates, they think that it’s the Facebook ads that weren’t working. That’s why you have all these people saying, “Facebook doesn’t work, AdWords doesn’t work, Twitter doesn’t work.”

Whatever doesn’t work is just the difference in the copy. It’s literally all about these five levels or awareness, and that’s how you change it. I’m sure there’s some questions. I’m sure we need to unpack some of that. I’m hoping you will lead me through unpacking all of that. 

John McIntyre:Well let’s say … For an example … All right, I mean you know what I deal with, with [the email 00:18:53] marketing stuff. One thing I’m thinking of, and we’re just obviously going on Facebook. This would be a cool way to dive in. Would be I’m trying to get people to buy more of my products say on Facebook, but off the top of my head just thinking about it, they’re going to be problem aware, maybe solution aware because they know that this product’s out there that will teach them more about marketing, and more about copy, and more about the emails and funnels and all that sort of stuff. They’re not aware of the product really, and they’re not hyper aware or whatever that last stage of Apple was; I wish.

Knowing that they’re problem aware I would say … I mean correct me if I’m wrong. That, that therefore means that I would need to go out there and hit them with the problem first, and then lead them to the next stages.

Justin Brooke:Well actually the Internet marketing audience, and those are the people who are interested in autoresponders and via cells, and Kindle books. I think everybody kind of knows what this industry is. It’s actually in the solution aware. They know that the problem that they have is that they want to build a business, but their business because … They want to build a business because they want financial freedom. They want to not work for the man anymore so they know what their problem is, and they know that the way to fix this is to learn how to run a business, learn how to write better autoresponders or website flipping or Kindle books. 

They’re solution aware. They are aware of solutions to the problem that they have. In a solution aware market the best thing that you can do is use claims and proof. That’s why you see everything that I’m marketing is my case studies, is the video of how to get a million visitors to your website. I’m always trying to read with case studies, screen shots; any kind of proof because that’s just what this market really craves. I mean it’s like they’re moths to a porch light when it comes to case studies.

If somebody says hey we came out with a new squeeze page or a new button, and we’ve split tested it to high heaven, yada, yada, yada. Then everybody’s all of a sudden using that button. I mean the last couple years ago it was the Belcher button, and today it’s a certain squeeze page. That’s what that market really craves, is the claims and the proof.

John McIntyre:Like you said, that’s more about the marketing though. The Internet marketing market as opposed to the stage right?

Justin Brooke:Right. I mean well that’s where they’re at so that’s what the level of copy would want to write to them. Now if you wanted to scale out because the Internet marketing in history is relatively small compared to other markets. There’s really about … I’ve tried to gauge the size of it. It’s somewhere between four hundred thousand and a million really. You could stretch the boundaries to about three million, but it’s a relatively small market. If you wanted to stretch it out to instead of the Internet marketers; all the guys. You know who Frank Kern is, and they know what A Weber is. 

You back it out to just entrepreneurs; all entrepreneurs. Now you’re probably more at the problem aware market, and then you can back it out even more to the unaware, and that’s when … To the unaware is basically the masses. When you market to the masses it’s usually just how to make money online. It’s MLM’s, it’s network marketing. That’s why usually if you’re an Internet marketer and you’re talking about Internet marketing with your friends or whatever, usually the first step to becoming an entrepreneur is some sort of MLM or network marketing company. 

I did it and most of my friends did it, and I see my own friends and family now are joining these things because they hear about the stuff that I’m doing and the life that I’m living. They’re now getting into that or they’re getting aware of that, so they’re joining these various programs. That’s how you would back it out. Am I making any sense here or am I just going off?

John McIntyre:This makes a lot of sense. It’s interesting because it adds a layer of complexity to trying to figure out … It’s almost like before you even start writing copy you’ve got to figure out what stage they’re in. If you can’t do that you’re going to end up completely going off in the wrong direction. 

Justin Brooke:Yes absolutely. I mean when you’re creating your avatar of who am I going to be talking to? I mean anytime anybody’s writing a piece of copy, if you’re writing an email to your list or you’re writing a sales page you have to think of okay, how am I going to distribute this? How am I going to get eyeballs to this? If I’m going to use my list, like you’re using an email, well then you’re going to write probably to a product aware or a most aware because they know what it is you have. You … When you’re writing to your list, you don’t need to use as much claims and as much proof. It’s really your announcing a new product and there’s a discount, and there’s a special bonus. If you just did that level your list would probably jump all over that. 

Whereas if you were to say that to a cold stranger like, “Hey I just came out with this new product and I’ve got a special bonus on it.” They’re like, “Dude who are you?” They don’t even … They’re just not at that level yet. Yeah, you’re right. Every time you sit down to write some copy, you need to think about who is going to see this? Who is going to be the most likely person because obviously you can’t be a hundred percent correct to every human being in the world. You just have to think of okay, the seventy percent or the eighty percent of people that are going to see this are in this level. 

He breaks it all down in his book. He literally unpacks this way better than I could ever do in thirty minutes on podcast. 

John McIntyre:Yeah, okay. For email specifically, this brings up the issue of you’d want to be … Someone signs up for the list, you hit them with an autoresponder for say ten days, thirty days, whatever. Then your broadcasts, if you’re doing the broadcasts, they would only go out to people assuming that they’re more for people who are aware of who you are and know what you do, and just want to know about upcoming products. Your broadcast would only go to people who have completed that autoresponder. That would tie into this whole idea?

Justin Brooke:Yes, yes, yeah. I have a seven day sequence that everybody goes through, and I treat them as they’re strangers. They don’t know who I am yet. I mean, email number one is,  “Hey, here’s the free thing that I gave you, but by the way my name’s Justin, here’s what I’ve done, and here’s why I think you should listen to me. Tomorrow I’m going to tell you a really cool story about yada, yada.” 

Then I tell them how I got started. I tell them what I stand for. It’s all about introducing myself and building the relationship in the first seven days. Then whenever I’m doing a broadcast after that, I don’t broadcast to anybody who’s still in that sequence. 

John McIntyre:Okay, okay. Then when you do, do a broadcast it’s probably less just talking about who you are and what you do and get to know someone, it’s more direct to the point of, “Oh I’ve got this product or I’ve got this offer.” It’s more to the point?

Justin Brooke:Yeah. When we announced that we changed our coaching program. We’ve had a coaching program for a long time, but when we changed the name to The Midas Network and we changed the format up a little bit and the pricing, I didn’t need to write to my list and start out by saying, “Before we talk about that my name is Justin Brooke and I got started by interning with Russell Brunson.” I didn’t need to do all of that stuff because they already know my story and who I am. 

I was able to get right to it, “Hey we have revamped our coaching program based on the feedback over the last year and here’s how we’re changing it.” “For the next seven days I’m doing a launch special pricing so if you want to get in you can have it at this price right now, otherwise it’s going to go back to its normal price.” That builds a little urgency, but if you look at his scale; my list, your list, all of our lists. They’re in the product awareness. They are aware of the products that we sell. They’re aware of what we do and what we sell. They are most motivated by discounts and deals on those products that they know we already sell.

John McIntyre:Okay, okay. Then it brings up the issue of some people would say that discounts are bad business because you’ve got the whole if it’s valuable you shouldn’t be discounting it, right?

Justin Brooke:Well yeah, that’s why I say discounts and deals. You don’t have to … I hate discounts. I mean I had a product inside youtome.com and it seems like their only marketing strategy is every week they say, “Hey you can buy all of our products for eighty percent off,” and they’re like, “Wow we get a lot of sales from that. Yes of course, but then nobody ever buys anything at the full price. 

John McIntyre:Yeah. 

Justin Brooke:They’re training to wait for Saturday when you’re going to do that sale thing. Instead you can offer an extra bonus or you can offer an extra interview that goes along with it in another module. You don’t have to discount the price, you can stack the value, and which makes the price feel like it went down.

John McIntyre:Yeah, okay, okay. That’s very cool. To go back to the whole funnels thing. Let’s say … Let’s pick something random. I’ve got a guy who’s in my community who does … He teaches people how to speak better English. He’s getting people from I think You Tube right now. He’s got a bunch of You Tube videos that then obviously funnel people to his website, but suppose he wanted to go and say jump on the Facebook and do some ads and advertise? Well, I’ve never heard of him before. Based on the stuff I’ve talked about here, what would be the right approach for this situation?

Justin Brooke:Okay, and really hard to do this on the fly, but I did have a couple of ideas. He teaches people how to speak English. I assume that they are speaking Spanish? They’re Spanish speakers or they’re French speakers or whatever and they just moved to the United States and they want to speak better English, right, something like that?

John McIntyre:I think … Yeah it’s something like that. He’s an English teacher in Japan and so he’s got this program. His job is teaching people how to speak English and he has his products online that help teach people how to speak English. I’m not sure exactly what his avatar is but it’s along those lines.

Justin Brooke:Okay, all right. Somebody who wants to speak a language, you’ve got to think about why do they want to speak that language? If they want to speak English, maybe they want to move to America. Maybe there is job position that they’re seeking or maybe it’s for business reasons. They want to learn how to speak English so that they can broaden their customer base. You would tell a story that would … Something that’s timely in the news. There’s a lot of travel to … I don’t know. I don’t watch enough news to really go off that angle, but you would use a story. 

For me, one example would be the story of the guy who’s going to the United States and he wants the freedom. He’s heard about the United States and all the glory that comes along with it. That you can show up with seven dollars in your pocket and you can stake a claim, and you can build a business, and you can chase the American dream. You would tell a story like that about the American dream and then you would then relate to it, and because you want this dream the only thing that’s stopping you from having this dream is being able to speak to the Americans because when you get over there if you’re speaking a different language, they’re not going to understand you. 

You’re not going to be able to get a job, you’re not going to be able to communicate with customers, you’re not going to be able to buy food, you’re not going to find where the bathroom is. You build up all these problems of what it’s like to not be able to speak the language, and then you tell … Now you introduce your product. You lead with a story that gets their attention. Something that they would already resonate with, and then you cross the bridge. You connect the dots for them to why they would need your course, so that they can get what the story was talking about. 

John McIntyre:Okay, okay.

Justin Brooke:For example. I got a really good example. I had a customer who came to me, and the reason why this is so relevant for traffic for everyone listening who’s like, “Wait I thought we were going to talk about traffic.” This is so relevant to traffic because if you can’t convert the traffic … Like what I learned from Rich Schefren. He always says, “People don’t have a traffic problem, they have a conversion problem because if their website was converting the traffic then they would be able to write a check.” Anybody can write a check and buy clicks. It’s whether or not you can convert them. That’s why we’re talking about this subject because this is what will help you convert paid traffic. 

The example that I have is a client came to me with a sinus relief product. That’s probably one of the most boring things that you could sell on the Internet. The problem with selling sinus relief is it’s not like fibromyalgia or diabetes where it’s a problem that they wake up with every day and they’re constantly thinking about it and constantly needing a better solution for it. A sinus relief is you have a sinus headache. When you have a sinus headache you will do anything to get rid of that sinus headache because regular ibuprofen and Tylenol won’t fix it. You need specific sinus relief medicine for it. It’s so painful. I get them. If anybody does get them they know. You will move mountains to get the relief, but you have to catch them when they’re having the sinus headache.

If you aren’t catching them when they have the sinus headache, then they don’t care. The problem’s gone, they’re not thinking about the problem anymore. We had to move it to the unaware. They are in the solution aware or they’re in the problem aware or the solution aware actually, when they have a sinus headache. When they’re not they’re in the unaware stage, so I created an angle called Zombies Disease. 

Basically the story … The via cell comes on and starts off with, “They called it Zombie Disease, and they called it that because of the mucus that was bubbling up over their eyes.” It goes into this story about how this tornado … I think it was in Kansas; came through and it whipped up a bunch of dirt which had a bunch of bacteria in it, and then people were inhaling this bacteria. It was actually a fungus. They were inhaling this killer fungus and it was giving them this skin eating disease that they literally called Zombie Disease. 

I used a new story about breathing in [funguses 00:33:19] and then I connected it to your body has a built in way of defending against these [funguses 00:33:24] because they are all around you. They could be hidden in your walls of your house. They could be in the food you eat and whatever, so your sinuses have a built … They are the natural human defense for blocking out bacteria and [funguses 00:33:40], but most people’s sinuses aren’t working correctly. 

I go into a little bit of a science of how sinuses work and how they clean things out, and if you have proper working sinuses you don’t have to worry about these [funguses 00:33:53], and yada, yada. Therefore, that’s why you should buy these sinus relief pills. That was how we connected it for paid traffic and it worked great once we got it all done. We spent a ton of money trying to buy traffic for this beautiful sinus relief via cell and sales page. We literally spent like ten thousand dollars trying to market this sinus relief pill, and then once we connected it to … When we told a story first, then we were able to all of a sudden start converting paid traffic. 

John McIntyre:On the interesting part, it’s like … Some people would hear that story and I would be guilty of this, I’ve done this quite often, is go “Oh that’s the story.” That’s why stories are important. You’ve always got to be telling stories. That’s not the lesson. The lesson is that you got to understand where your prospect’s really at in their head. This goes back to, I think it was Robert Collier. You’re going to answer that conversation going on ahead, and then lead them from that point whether that’s the solution aware or the unaware or the problem aware or whatever stage they’re in; you’ve got to figure out exactly where they’re at, and then lead them to the product.

If you screw that up, and you can screw that up. In some situations telling a story would be the worst thing you could do because they don’t want a story. They just want to hear about the deal or the offer. That’s the issue. It’s not that stories are the lifesavers. Stories are useful in a certain context, and sometimes they’re not. 

Justin Brooke:Stories are clearly useful, but the Five Levels of Awareness helps you know what story you should be telling because you could totally tell the wrong story at the wrong time, but knowing the different levels of awareness … If I’m talking to the IM market I’m going to use a story that has a lot of claims and a lot of proof in it. If I’m using a story to my own customer list I’m going to tell a story about the product and how it works so great, and I’m going to end that story with the discounts and deals. The different levels of awareness help you know what story you should tell and what you should say in those stories to convert that person from not being a customer to wanting to be a customer. 

John McIntyre:Oh, okay. Just quickly because we’re right on time here. What would be the best way to … What’s the best way to figure out what stage people are in? Just some common sense thinking or is there some sort of process to it?

Justin Brooke:I mean literally, go to Google and type in Eugene Schwartz Five Levels of Awareness. You’ll find … There’s tons of blog posts about it, there’s pictures. I mean that’s what I’m looking at right now because I don’t have it all memorized. I’m looking at a picture of it. Keep that on your desk because it’s a good little cheat sheet that will tell you what type of angle you need to use. The ultimate solution is to buy the book, but it’s a little bit of common sense. What you can do as a fast start because nobody likes to hear, “Oh great I need to build a whole new funnel now.” 

What you can actually do is you can build just a squeeze page. I call it a traffic microwave because I’m taking cold traffic and I’m warming it up really fast so that I can get them on my normal sales funnel that isn’t adapted for the unaware market. You just create a squeeze page that would work for the unaware market, and then lead them in through a autoresponder sequence which you would help people on. Then autoresponder sequence would then warm them up so that they’re ready to work. 

That’s the fastest way somebody could get cold traffic to start working for them, is instead of trying to drive the cold traffic to your warm traffic ready sales letter, put up some sort of a lead gen device or even an article. I mean this is why native advertising is working so well for businesses is because the articles which are stories that they’re using, appeal to the market. Warms them up a little bit, and then gets them ready for the sales presentation. That’s the easiest way people can get started with this. 

John McIntyre:Okay. Sounds good man. We’re right on time here. Before we go though can you give the listener a … What is the best place for them to go find you, a little more about and get a case study or check out the coaching?

Justin Brooke:Yeah I know we robbed them a little bit of talking about traffic strategies and all that stuff, but if they go to my blog there’s just a ton of videos and articles. If you search my name on Google; Justin Brooke. Brooke with an E at the end, you’ll find all my stuff. My website, my Facebook, my You Tube; all that stuff or you can just go to IMScalable.com/blog and you’ll find the stuff there. You Tube, if you do a search for traffic strategist on You Tube you’ll find the videos. We have over a hundred videos about traffic over there. 

John McIntyre:Perfect, perfect. Well thanks for coming on the show Justin. It’s been good man.

Justin Brooke:Yeah man, thank you so much for letting me vent all this stuff. It is a message that I’ve been wanting to tell people for so long because it’s like, “Yo people, this is the reason why Facebook is not working for people, this is the reason why they’re not getting the ROI they want.” If they just knew this, this is the magic key that unlocks it for them. I’m really passionate about this. 

John McIntyre:That’s a good note to end on. Cool man. 

2 thoughts on “Episode #68 – Justin Brooke on The Unlimited Scaling Potential of Your Business Through Targeted Copy”

  1. Great stuff. The market sophistication and level of awareness is often overlooked when writing copy. A lot of beginner’s just preach “sell benefits, not features” but it is very dependent on who you’re speaking to, and what stage they are in the buying process. Thanks for laying it out.

    I think Justin interned for Russell Brunson, not Richard Branson, correct?


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